The Pointy End of Freedom of Speech (Aust)
Late last year two pastors from a Victorian charismatic pentecostal church, Catch the Fire Ministries, were found to have contravened Victoria's Racial and Religious Tolerance Act 2001. I've been meaning to write on the case, Islamic Council of Victoria v Catch the Fire Ministries Inc., for quite a while now but I've been waiting until I could bring myself to wade through the 110-page VCAT judgement of Higgins J. I don't know if you've ever read a VCAT judgement, but if this one is anything to go by, it's a truly painful experience. It was appallingly formatted (ie it never used quote marks when someone was being quoted), there were spelling errors all through it and about 90% of it was repetitive descriptions of the evidence which was presented by witnesses and in cross examination. Ugh. Anyway, I now have a reasonable idea of why the two pastors were found to have breached the Act, something I never really got from the extensive media coverage. I'll start by extracting the relevant parts of the Act:
The complaint centered around a seven-hour conference on 'understanding Islam' and two articles printed on the church's web site. I won't bother distinguishing between the various sources, I'll just present the contravening conduct as a whole. The respondents claimed that most Australian Muslims were actively engaged in a process of 'silent Jihad', and those which weren't would be compelled to in the future otherwise they would be false Muslims. Silent Jihad was presented by the respondents as encompassing a number of steps, all of which are mandated by the Qu'ran:
This was described as the 'plan of the enemy to take the land' and the position of Australian Muslims with no supporting evidence beyond assertions that un-named Islamic leaders had agreed with them and what were found or admitted to be mis-used or falsified statistics. Additionally, the respondents stated that all Muslims must, by definition, be terrorists and any statement that terrorists were 'rogue' elements was a lie. The evidence presented to the tribunal did not establish the factual basis of any of these claims in an Australian context. The interpretation of the Qur'an which was presented was found to be deliberately unreasonable, extreme, out-of-context and divorced from the actual practice of Australian Muslims in order to incite revulsion and hatred.
The stylistic tone of the seminar was found to be combative and designed to inspire hatred, contempt and ridicule. Out-of-context statements relating to the Qur'anic teaching on the status of women, criminal punishment and the sexual behaviour of Muhammad were used to add to this atmosphere. The primary speaker, Daniel Scot, was described charismatic in style and was repeatedly able to draw shocked gasps and ridiculing laughter from the audience. Combined, this conduct was found to have contravened s. 8.
The respondents were held not be allowed to rely on the defence in s. 11 as they had not acted 'reasonably or in good faith'. Factors which established their bad faith (subjectively and objectively) were:
It is patently obvious that the pastors were not found to have breached the Act for simply quoting the Qu'ran, as they claimed in their media statements. Their conduct was truly, outstandingly outrageous. It should also be noted that, contrary to some media reports, neither Scot or Nalliah were Muslim converts – they had merely grown up in Islamic countries. Anyone who defends the substance of what was said and presented by those pastors and their church in my book is either ignorant of what they said or complicit in the spreading of grossly distortionary, inflammatory, unfair and untrue information which was calculated to incite fear, hatred, contempt, revulsion and ridicule.
Having said that, there remains the thorny question of whether it is a good thing to make this sort of conduct illegal. I'm a big fan of freedom of speech, even freedom of outrageous and unreasonable speech, 'I'll disagree with what you say but not your right to say it' and all that. It's a fundamental principle of a liberal democracy and should only have a bare minimum of restrictions. Obviously there are legitimate restrictions, principally for defamation and 'hate speech'.
These laws go far beyond traditional concepts of hate speech. For one, they prohibit the inspiring of such non-hating emotions such as "serious contempt, revulsion or severe ridicule" which is on the face of it unconscionably broad. This is a very wide range of emotions which aren't allowed to be stirred up, and unless they are inspired both reasonably and in good faith, none of the exceptions in s. 11 can be relied upon. Thus a comic making an unreasonable joke which inspires severe ridicule about any religion or a human rights activist making exaggerated (ie unreasonable) but in-substance true statements which inspire revulsion are both in danger of breaching the act.
Hate speech laws traditionally encompass an element of inspiring an audience to violence, and can be justified on a simple harm principle basis. These laws go much further. There might be a short gap between "hate" and "incite to violence", and I think there's a particularly short gap between Catch the Fire's conduct and "inciting to violence", but I think the Act falls outside the traditional range of hate speech laws and goes simply too far.
Some have pointed out, as Higgins J did, that the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act applies the concepts of defamation to races and religions. I must confess a wholesale ignorance of the substance of defamation laws, but I do have problems with the concept being applied to religions. I can see how defamation laws as applied to the press can discourage socially undesirable (untrue, malicious, slanderous) statements which do nothing but damage the reputation of a public figure and/or cause another party economic loss. I think such laws are likely to be effective in deterring such speech as media outlets don't usually have a major vested personal interest in continuing to make such statements under the threat of large monetary fines.
When you enter the field of religion, though, things are much different. I'm not sure about Islam (though I believe it is the case based on some of the passages identified in this case), but Christianity certainly contains injunctions to obey heavenly authory over secular laws in matters of personal conscience, under some interpretations anyway - "we must obey God rathar than men". In practice, this means that laws such as this are unlikely to eliminate the real harm done by this sort of hate speech, but will often inflame the situation. The sorts of people likely to get in trouble with the law are religious extremists such as Daniel Scot who will actually go to jail rather than pay the fairly small cost of the public apology which was ordered by Higgins J. In fact, they would relish the opportunity to go to jail for "quoting the Qur'an" as this confirms their "Sharia law by stealth" hyperbole, creates a palpable sense of martyrdom and fires up their religious base.
In fact not only will this law fail to stop the harmful speech, it has and will continue to propagate it vastly beyond the 200 person-audience at the original conference. There has been about 140 posts on the story at one of the highest traffic blogs (and sites) around, the hate and war-mongering Little Green Footballs and the media exposure even in mainstream outlets inevitably paints a biased story of what happened. Daniel Scot (who has been more public than Nalliah) comes across on TV as a softly spoken, reasonable kind of guy who has created the impression that what he said amounted to little more than quoting the Qur'an and asserting his Christian beliefs. And, of course, Andrew Bolt with his unfortunately large populist audience, characterises the conduct as laughingly banal. Just about everyone who reads what actually was presented at the seminar would agree that it's outrageous, but it's perceptions that matter here and those being "silenced" and "having their freedom of speech squashed" are going to win the image war.
If these laws are indeed applications of defamation principles to religion, they are still a bad idea. The conduct they seek to prevent may be truly outrageous, but the conduct itself will not be stopped by the laws and the contraveners will get far more exposure for their noxious ideas than they otherwise would have and will use the "punishment" of the law as ammunition to rile up even more extremist sentiment in the community. They are bad public policy.
But what should we do about this sort of thing? I understand (at an intellectual level, I obviously don't have personal experience) the pain of a minority group whose views are being represented in an unfair and potentially dangerous way by the majority. If I were a Christian or Jew in a Muslim country I would be rightly dismayed if an Imam were spreading the Blood Libel, the Protocols of Zion or a literalist, violent, interpretation of the Old Testament (an interpretation which is surely open, if not the practice of the vast majority of Christians) - especially if such tales were used to inspire fear and hatred in the community.
But I think that ultimately the answer to bad speech is more speech. But unlike the traditional formulation of this argument (which is a "get the government out" point), why shouldn't the government be actively involved in facilitating this speech? Why not have entirely toothless vilification laws which would enable tribunals to be set up to hear complaints about this sort of conduct before a neutral fact-finder? Hopefully the results of this process would get a decent amount of media exposure and it could be used as a way of spreading the truth in the face of outrageous slander. The key is to not attach penalties to it, because this neutralises the "sharia law by stealth" argument, neutralises the need for parties to engage costly legal counsel (I'd ban representation and take other cost-cutting measures) and reduces the hysterical elements associated with the current law. Further, I'd give the tribunal a greater strike-out power than is currently available due to the fact that my proposed law would be more an informal process to publicise information of public relevance than a court process. This would stop the current abuses of the law - something I'm actually on the same page as Bolt on.
A minority religion which has been vilified in this way should have recourse to a public remedy. However this remedy should not focus on the extremist who has spread the beliefs (the person least likely to be affected by the law), it should be focussed on the community at large to neutralise the real harm from such speech. I would hope that a proposal such as this would be able to go some way to meeting this aim.
- (8) A person must not, on the grounds of religious belief or activity of another person or class of persons engage in conduct that incites hatred against, serious contempt for, or revulsion or severe ridicule of, that other person or class of persons.
(11) A person does not contravene section [] 8 if the person establishes that the person’s conduct was engaged in reasonably and in good faith -
- (a) In the performance exhibition or distribution of an artistic work; or
(b) In the course of any statement, publication, discussion or debate made or held, or any other conduct engaged in, for -
- (i) any genuine academic, artistic, religious or scientific purpose; or
(ii) any purpose that is in the public interest; or
The complaint centered around a seven-hour conference on 'understanding Islam' and two articles printed on the church's web site. I won't bother distinguishing between the various sources, I'll just present the contravening conduct as a whole. The respondents claimed that most Australian Muslims were actively engaged in a process of 'silent Jihad', and those which weren't would be compelled to in the future otherwise they would be false Muslims. Silent Jihad was presented by the respondents as encompassing a number of steps, all of which are mandated by the Qu'ran:
- Deception of the majority non-Muslim population as to the peaceful nature of Islam. This deception would only be revealed when the Muslim population gained sufficient strength.
- Bribing people with up to $10,000 to convert.
- Aiming to obtain Muslim numerical majority in Australia at which stage the non-Muslim minority would be forced to convert or leave the country.
- This numerical majority was being achieved through the high birthing practices of Muslims, with respect to non-Muslim Australians, and through immigration. The latter situation was accelerated through the current Islamic 'control' over the immigration department and ‘infiltration’ of parliament.
- At this stage those that would not convert would have to pay a punitive 'poll tax' (jizya) or have their head cut off.
- Muslims were to be encouraged to participate in this by the promise of looting the material possessions of non-believers, as well as threats of divine damnation.
This was described as the 'plan of the enemy to take the land' and the position of Australian Muslims with no supporting evidence beyond assertions that un-named Islamic leaders had agreed with them and what were found or admitted to be mis-used or falsified statistics. Additionally, the respondents stated that all Muslims must, by definition, be terrorists and any statement that terrorists were 'rogue' elements was a lie. The evidence presented to the tribunal did not establish the factual basis of any of these claims in an Australian context. The interpretation of the Qur'an which was presented was found to be deliberately unreasonable, extreme, out-of-context and divorced from the actual practice of Australian Muslims in order to incite revulsion and hatred.
The stylistic tone of the seminar was found to be combative and designed to inspire hatred, contempt and ridicule. Out-of-context statements relating to the Qur'anic teaching on the status of women, criminal punishment and the sexual behaviour of Muhammad were used to add to this atmosphere. The primary speaker, Daniel Scot, was described charismatic in style and was repeatedly able to draw shocked gasps and ridiculing laughter from the audience. Combined, this conduct was found to have contravened s. 8.
The respondents were held not be allowed to rely on the defence in s. 11 as they had not acted 'reasonably or in good faith'. Factors which established their bad faith (subjectively and objectively) were:
- Their agreement with a statement put to them that most Australian 'Muslims were peaceful, decent God-fearing, honest citizens', in contrast to the views expressed at the conference
- The presentation of 'silent Jihad' with little relevant evidence and without distinguishing between different groups of Muslims
- The use of the unusual ‘Pickthall’ translation of the Qur’an where it had stronger language
- The exaggerated paraphrasing of certain passages of the Qur'an where it was claimed they were being directly quoted
- Scot’s use of the name 'Son of Ahmed Siddiqui' (his birth name) in literature distributed at the conference to give the impression it was written by an independent Muslim when he hadn't gone by that since 1971
- The mis-attributing of statistics to the Australian Bureau of Statistics and the incorrect mathematics used to describe Muslim growth rates
- Out-of-context quoting of the Qur’an, such as reading vs 38, 40 and 41 of one passage while leaving out vs 39 which would have made the passage seem less extreme
- Citing a figure on the number of verses in the Qur'an which spoke of Jihad which was highly misleading (the figure included, for example, verses on the punishment for murder)
- An admission that he should not have asserted that Muslims 'control' the immigration department, he claimed he should have used the word 'influence'
- Misleading and evasive testimony at trial
It is patently obvious that the pastors were not found to have breached the Act for simply quoting the Qu'ran, as they claimed in their media statements. Their conduct was truly, outstandingly outrageous. It should also be noted that, contrary to some media reports, neither Scot or Nalliah were Muslim converts – they had merely grown up in Islamic countries. Anyone who defends the substance of what was said and presented by those pastors and their church in my book is either ignorant of what they said or complicit in the spreading of grossly distortionary, inflammatory, unfair and untrue information which was calculated to incite fear, hatred, contempt, revulsion and ridicule.
Having said that, there remains the thorny question of whether it is a good thing to make this sort of conduct illegal. I'm a big fan of freedom of speech, even freedom of outrageous and unreasonable speech, 'I'll disagree with what you say but not your right to say it' and all that. It's a fundamental principle of a liberal democracy and should only have a bare minimum of restrictions. Obviously there are legitimate restrictions, principally for defamation and 'hate speech'.
These laws go far beyond traditional concepts of hate speech. For one, they prohibit the inspiring of such non-hating emotions such as "serious contempt, revulsion or severe ridicule" which is on the face of it unconscionably broad. This is a very wide range of emotions which aren't allowed to be stirred up, and unless they are inspired both reasonably and in good faith, none of the exceptions in s. 11 can be relied upon. Thus a comic making an unreasonable joke which inspires severe ridicule about any religion or a human rights activist making exaggerated (ie unreasonable) but in-substance true statements which inspire revulsion are both in danger of breaching the act.
Hate speech laws traditionally encompass an element of inspiring an audience to violence, and can be justified on a simple harm principle basis. These laws go much further. There might be a short gap between "hate" and "incite to violence", and I think there's a particularly short gap between Catch the Fire's conduct and "inciting to violence", but I think the Act falls outside the traditional range of hate speech laws and goes simply too far.
Some have pointed out, as Higgins J did, that the Racial and Religious Tolerance Act applies the concepts of defamation to races and religions. I must confess a wholesale ignorance of the substance of defamation laws, but I do have problems with the concept being applied to religions. I can see how defamation laws as applied to the press can discourage socially undesirable (untrue, malicious, slanderous) statements which do nothing but damage the reputation of a public figure and/or cause another party economic loss. I think such laws are likely to be effective in deterring such speech as media outlets don't usually have a major vested personal interest in continuing to make such statements under the threat of large monetary fines.
When you enter the field of religion, though, things are much different. I'm not sure about Islam (though I believe it is the case based on some of the passages identified in this case), but Christianity certainly contains injunctions to obey heavenly authory over secular laws in matters of personal conscience, under some interpretations anyway - "we must obey God rathar than men". In practice, this means that laws such as this are unlikely to eliminate the real harm done by this sort of hate speech, but will often inflame the situation. The sorts of people likely to get in trouble with the law are religious extremists such as Daniel Scot who will actually go to jail rather than pay the fairly small cost of the public apology which was ordered by Higgins J. In fact, they would relish the opportunity to go to jail for "quoting the Qur'an" as this confirms their "Sharia law by stealth" hyperbole, creates a palpable sense of martyrdom and fires up their religious base.
In fact not only will this law fail to stop the harmful speech, it has and will continue to propagate it vastly beyond the 200 person-audience at the original conference. There has been about 140 posts on the story at one of the highest traffic blogs (and sites) around, the hate and war-mongering Little Green Footballs and the media exposure even in mainstream outlets inevitably paints a biased story of what happened. Daniel Scot (who has been more public than Nalliah) comes across on TV as a softly spoken, reasonable kind of guy who has created the impression that what he said amounted to little more than quoting the Qur'an and asserting his Christian beliefs. And, of course, Andrew Bolt with his unfortunately large populist audience, characterises the conduct as laughingly banal. Just about everyone who reads what actually was presented at the seminar would agree that it's outrageous, but it's perceptions that matter here and those being "silenced" and "having their freedom of speech squashed" are going to win the image war.
If these laws are indeed applications of defamation principles to religion, they are still a bad idea. The conduct they seek to prevent may be truly outrageous, but the conduct itself will not be stopped by the laws and the contraveners will get far more exposure for their noxious ideas than they otherwise would have and will use the "punishment" of the law as ammunition to rile up even more extremist sentiment in the community. They are bad public policy.
But what should we do about this sort of thing? I understand (at an intellectual level, I obviously don't have personal experience) the pain of a minority group whose views are being represented in an unfair and potentially dangerous way by the majority. If I were a Christian or Jew in a Muslim country I would be rightly dismayed if an Imam were spreading the Blood Libel, the Protocols of Zion or a literalist, violent, interpretation of the Old Testament (an interpretation which is surely open, if not the practice of the vast majority of Christians) - especially if such tales were used to inspire fear and hatred in the community.
But I think that ultimately the answer to bad speech is more speech. But unlike the traditional formulation of this argument (which is a "get the government out" point), why shouldn't the government be actively involved in facilitating this speech? Why not have entirely toothless vilification laws which would enable tribunals to be set up to hear complaints about this sort of conduct before a neutral fact-finder? Hopefully the results of this process would get a decent amount of media exposure and it could be used as a way of spreading the truth in the face of outrageous slander. The key is to not attach penalties to it, because this neutralises the "sharia law by stealth" argument, neutralises the need for parties to engage costly legal counsel (I'd ban representation and take other cost-cutting measures) and reduces the hysterical elements associated with the current law. Further, I'd give the tribunal a greater strike-out power than is currently available due to the fact that my proposed law would be more an informal process to publicise information of public relevance than a court process. This would stop the current abuses of the law - something I'm actually on the same page as Bolt on.
A minority religion which has been vilified in this way should have recourse to a public remedy. However this remedy should not focus on the extremist who has spread the beliefs (the person least likely to be affected by the law), it should be focussed on the community at large to neutralise the real harm from such speech. I would hope that a proposal such as this would be able to go some way to meeting this aim.
12 Comments:
A date has now been selected for Melbourne Grogblogging #2. Saturday 27th August at Papa Gino's on Lygon Street, Carlton. It will be starting at 7pm. Click here to find out more and RSVP in the comments. Hope to see you there.
http://www.chrisfryer.com/blog/archives/2005/07/test_2.php
By
Chris Fryer, at 2:29 PM
Very interesting post. I was glad to read about Catch the Fire's actions - they were much more extreme than the media had presented. But I agree with you that it's not government's role to restrict speech that doesn't induce violence.
I have to disagree though with the idea of a government-run "facts board". After all, why not apply the same idea to everything? "Lucy says I'm a fat ugly mole!" "Fat, yes, but quite clearly, Lucy, 'ugly' is going too far..." Anyway, even if just restricting it to vilification matters, its opinions would either be: (1) ignored; or (2) seen as yet another example of the PC brigade telling people what they can and can't think.
By
Splat Guy, at 11:42 PM
You misunderstand me, Splat guy. I didn’t expand on the model too much, because the post was already too long, but I did make it clear that this body would have a very wide discretion to knock back spurious complaints. Only in cases of severe religious vilification (such as this one or spreading tales of the Blood Libel or the fictitious Protocols of Zion – ie very extreme, very wrong and potentially dangerous) would it be able to make a determination. It would primarily be a vehicle for exposing the sort of dangerous and false myths that can be spread against minorities which find it difficult to counter these tales as they don’t have access to the (hegemonic) power of mainstream culture. When a muslim extremist posts something outrageous, every man and his dog attacks it (ie the prime minister and a bunch of public and media figures). When a Christian guy is spreading something outrageous about Muslism there isn’t the same sort of access to spread a more reasoned view – hence my proposal.
There is a real problem that is sought to be addressed by these vilification laws, I’m looking for a less inflammatory solution.
By
Jeremy, at 11:22 AM
I skimmed your commentary. Its full of errors. Eg s.11 "engaged in reasonably and in good faith"
You shouldn't write this sort of stuff unless you know about it.
By
Anonymous, at 8:50 PM
@anon
See, this what happens when you skim. s. 11 says you have to act bothy reasonably AND in good faith, yes, but Higgins J found that they had acted neither reasonably nor in good faith. I didn't use the word "neither" in the actual sentence, so I used the word "or" instead of "nor", but it's still perfectly acceptable. I was paraphrasing, true, so perhaps I shouldn't have used quotes, though.
By
Jeremy, at 8:37 AM
Your alternative to religious vilification laws is constructive and certainly better than censorship.
Nevertheless, there remains no good reason to coercively tax people in the pursuit of a "fact-finding tribunal". This requires governments to set up statutory commissions with a party line...rather like a Human Rights Commission. Will that be the official opinion of the government, or the opinion of a bunch of underemployed lawyers lucky to get a spot on the commission?
The answer to state power is not more or different state power, but to dismember and emasculate the state. If any provable economic loss occurs due to "false or misleading" statements made by a particular individual, why not propose that people pursue through the common law? Even so, my preference is for a 1st Amendment to check any unreasonable actions (e.g. McDonalds taking a bunch of people to court for claiming that their food is terrible - their food IS terrible, and demonstrably bad for your health).
By
Steve Edwards, at 3:37 PM
@Steve.
Even without googling, I could have guessed that you wrote for libertarian.org.au. The trouble with proper libertarians is that they're as ideologically inflexible as socialists. One says more government=good, the other says more gov't=bad and they're blind to any alternative. There is a genuine problem with the ability of minority groups to disseminate information which counters dangerous vilification which is said against them. But your solution is nonsensical because it limits the type of recognised harm to pure economic loss. You don't recognise the harm from not being able to participate in public life without suspicision, the lack of social and employment opportunity, the violent verbal and physical abuse, the constant media focus and outrage caused by this kind of speech. Or if you recognise it, you don't accept that it is real harm.
The court doesn't need a party line. Its mandate can be construed narrowly to stick to primarily factual issues (eg. is there evidence of a Muslim plot to take over Australia? A Jewish plot to take over the world?). But something must be done and letting people sue each other for economic loss and "emasculating the state" is hardly a solution.
And thanks for dropping by!
By
Jeremy, at 12:25 PM
Hi,
I am an evangelical christian
who has followed some of the
events of this case with some
alarm.
I read a report of the case here in the UK in a christian news-
paper and was horrified and
dismayed by [1] what was reported
to have been said at the offending
seminar and [2] the triumphalistic
tone with which the paper lauded this.
I wrote to the editor to express
my concerns and alerted my church
and friends about the case. This
has become something of a cause
celebre - in my opinion - for
all the wrong reasons. As a
christian I am concerned that we
have become drawn into a
disgraceful argument about
conspiracy theories - I believe
we should have been focussed on
the Gospel. The issues before
the court were not the person
of Jesus Christ [that as God's
son he cannot be superceded by
any other revelation] or that
by his Cross he rescues all those
who put their exclusive trust in
him. No the issues before the court
were; how to correctly interpret
the Koran, whether the Muslim
community tacitly support
terrorism and if there was a
conspiracy afoot to take over
the country. HARDLY GOSPEL
ISSUES ARE THEY?
All I can say; is please do not
judge us all by the actions of
some. This is not the evangelical
church's finest hour, I am very
sorry for the offence that has
been caused. I am also sorry that
VCAT has been pilloried as it
has.
God Bless,
By
swiftypete, at 4:28 AM
The use of the unusual ‘Pickthall’ translation of the Qur’an where it had stronger language.
Realizing this is an old post, I'm curious as to why you characterized Pickthall's translation as "unusual." I'm quite familiar with this translation and don't find anything "unusual" about it.
By
JD, at 6:41 PM
Everything I know about the Qur'an I know from that VCAT decision! From memory, the judge found that Daniel Scott had used this translation when the language in it was harsher than that of the version he was primarily using and I believe he accepted evidence that it was not the 'standard' translation. I could be wrong, I'm just going on what was in that case.
By
Jeremy, at 9:36 AM
Hi I'm David Ross.
http://aussiebikinimarch07.wikispaces.com/
Am evolving a web site as above.
Now.. if you want HATE SPEECH, you cannot go much better (worse) than this from the Quran.
009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Lets list them point by point.
1/ CURSED by Allah
2/ DELUDED
3/ Away from TRUTH.
Now.. this is mentioning Christians BY NAME specifically and is therefore ILLEGAL in Victoria.
And you wonder why Nalia and Scott are doing a seminar on Islam ? Good grief.
I assure you, you have only seen the tiny beginning. A movement is building which will hopefully eliminate all Muslim immigration to Australia (cultural incompatability reasons as outlined in their dogma above)
Call it what you like... but don't call it any worse than the verse I quoted.
Funny..I don't feel comfortable bringing someone into my home who immediatly declares me CURSED by God, deluded and away from the truth. That is specific, blatant and outright religious defamation and discrimination, and surprise suprise.. I WILL FIGHT IT on every level, 'take no prisoners' (But lawfully)
You can expect to see me on the Steps of St Pauls Cathedral with THAT verse displayed as a large sign, aimed at my fellow Christians to WAKE them up out of their liberal/ignorant spiritual slumber.
The tide is turning.
One thing you moderate, radical or anybrand leftists should realize, it would be WORSE for you under Sharia law than for Christians.
Your bleeding hearts can bleed all they like, but it will be your throats which bleed ultimately for being 'kafirs' and 'anti Allah'.
Look up youtube on the justification of 'killing a kafir wherever you find them' its argued very eloquently by some Imam in an Indian context.
"ONE NATION, ONE CULTURE ONE RACE" is on its way, and believe it or not that is NOT a "white supremacist" statement, but you will have to *think* about that to get it.
By
Anonymous, at 1:43 PM
Jeremy.. if thats all you know about the Quran.. you should check this out mate.
Surah 23:5-6 It is the dogmatic authorization of the use of captive females as sex objects. "Those your right hand possesses"
Given that the Quran is "Allah's word for all time" and according to the Preston Mosque Imam on ABC will NEVER change and cannot be 'contextualized' historically... it is an afront to our values of decency.
Learn that verse.. study it.. and take it to heart that there is a war which must be won.
That verse is what authorizes the use of YOUR SISTER as a sex slave after YOU, your brothers and your father have had your throats cut as per mohammeds little effort at Khaibar.
Remember what Amroze said ? "Jews..remember Khaibar".. did you notice Hezbollar has a missile they named 'Khaibar II' ?
Trust me when I say that such things are UP TO DATE in the Muslim mindset, and THAT is what Nalia and Scott were on about.
You may understand this little article in terms of Romans 13.
Not Matthew 5
By
Anonymous, at 1:53 PM
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